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Top 10 most underrated weapons
Hey guys, today we are counting down the top 10 most underrated weapons in Urban Terror. We had a little discussion among the writers and now here am I presenting what thoughts have come out.
10. H&K Grenade Launcher
The potato launcher is a pretty weak weapon. While in other games like Modern Warfare 2 a grenade launcher is overpowered, here it is almost useless in most situations… mostly because of the delay of the explosion. However in some situations it might come in handy to keep pressure on the enemy spawn especially in TDM or CTF. Very good players can pull out good ratios from it.
9. MP5K
Often left behind from the UMP, the MP5k can be a good weapon, especially in tough situations where every hit is important.
8. M4
Everybody seems to use the LR-300 and nobody knows that is exactly the same as the M4. I prefer the M4 because it sounds like it shoots more bullets than it really does, so I tend to spam less.
7. PSG1
Even if it seems almost useless in Team Survivor, the PSG1 can be deadly in CTF and against a team with few kevlars.
6. UMP45
The UMP is an incredibly powerful weapon. Every now and then I use it also as a primary (with laser). While in Auto it seems like a tuned down LR-300, in spam mode can take down an enemy with just a burst. You have to be pretty accurate though.
5. HE Grenade
In the hands of a good player, Grenades means at least 1 kill if not 2 per round. The key is not wasting them if you don’t hear or see anybody.
4. G36
The G36 is considered to bee a noob weapon. However in some situations is almost a must. Don’t spam with it.
3. Beretta
The Beretta is often forgotten, but against a team with few helmets is awesome. Discharge it quickly and aim for the head.
2. SPAS
Even if it has been tuned down since previous iterations of Urban Terror, is still a very powerful secondary weapon. When sniping use the DE for medium range fights and then charge forward with the SPAS. With some luck you can get even around 75% of damage with just a single shot.
1. Negev
I can’t stress on how much is it good. If only Frozen Sand would give it a liiiiitle damage boost in 4.2 it would be used a lot more.
What do you think? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Tell us in the comments!
Related posts:
- Urban Terror 4.2 to get akimbo weapons [UPDATE] A few days ago, Frozen Sand relased a very funny dancing video featuring Urban Terror 4.2 that reminds me of machinima stuff. The video itself it’s pointles.. however what’s really interesting is a glimpse of akimbo (or dual) weapons that Frozen Sand said will be included in Urban Terror 4.2. The Video A new weapon? In addition to see [...]...
- MP5K or UMP45? Comment to decide! Which is the best secondary weapon besides the SPAS? You decide! Comment this post and tell us which is your favourite between MP5K and UMP45 and why. Your comments will go into a post that will be published on monday....
I agree on the most of the list, but not about Mp5K and Spas.
Mp5K is not underestimated: a lot of people use it , als if not so powerful as ump, it is even more lethal because of its amazing fire rate.
On the other side Spas is a just for fun gun; ok, you can kill someone time by time, but in no case you can consider Spas at the same level of other secondary weapons
Don use it pretty well to rush. You need to deploy the SPAS differently to other secondaries. Others can be used at long/mid range but the SPAS is only used as close range.
I definetly do not agree with you here.
I have to admit, in CTF or TDM, it’s pretty useless since the enemy just keeps coming.
But, if there is one thing that you can’t say about the spas, it is that it’s a “fun” weapon.
It’s the 3rd most powerfull weapon in the game if you look at maximum damage. You can say “Suuure, but you only can get 6 shots with it which is useless against multiple enemies” Which is true, but with multiple enemies you’re screwed most of the time anyway.
The spas is (in my opinion) the best secondary for a sniper (While playing TS). First kill people with your sr8 and then finish off with your spas.
And also, you can scare the heck outtof people with it, since you have to go towards the enemy (so you hit more) instead of moving away from him (to get a better aim).
You can’t really compare the in-game weapons. I’m not saying it is better than the other secondary weapons, since the MP5K has an amazing fire ratio and the UMP has a very nice accuracity, but don’t underestimate the spas.
Spas bigger problem is not the 6 bullet magazine.
1- Firing rate is so slow that you never need six bullets.
2- Spas has a big maximum damage, but usually it doesn’t reach this damage. Most of time the damage is 4-50%. You can reach the same result (and faster) with mp5k or ump, which also permits to fire at medium distance.
IMHO I cannot imagine a situation where a spas give you an advantage compared to mp5k or ump…
Yup. The PSG-1 is a lifesaver for me as it is semi-auto, meaning that its faster than the snail-like overpowered SR-8. If I’m a PSG vs. SR8, I can pull off frags because they miss and are forced to bolt, whereas I keep firing. Also, it supports suppressors.
I usually combine the MP5K (silenced) with my PSG-1, so if I’m rushed I can take the rusher down fast.
You can’t assume that the person with an sr8 will miss ==
I very like the MP5K with laser and silencer i often equip it at primary until i pick up a LR300 or something else.
The MP5K is deadly with is very high shooting ratio make sure just hitting the target….
Your description of the MP5K is self contradictory. If every hit counts, do NOT use the MP5K, go for the much much much more accurate UMP45. The MP5K is a fun spamming weapon when playing on pubs… but it stands no chance against a UMP45 on spam(burst) mode.
I am mostly an AK user… but I agree on your choice of the M4, it makes a lot less noise than the LR300, so it’s automatically a better weapon since enemies will have a harder time telling where your shots are coming from.
And yes, I agree that the UMP45 is good enough to be a primary, especially in enclosed maps. Once you master the spam mode, there’s no going back, that thing is a friggin’ shotgun in close range and two bursts are usually enough to kill an enemy at medium range. Add a laser sight and you can almost snipe with it… especially if your enemy has no helmet, with the 3 shots burst, you are almost guaranteed to have at least one head shot. The UMP45 is a monster and should be a prime target for nerfing in 4.2.
Maybe I didn’t explained myself. I was thinking about situations where your enemy is low on health (20-30% of life) and spamming with the MP5k can kill him.
Oh, that is very true indeed, in that situation the MP5K works marvels. But so does a Beretta… and it’s more accurate. Guess you can tell I have had bad experience with the MP5K dubious accuracy too often.
i mean dont spam with mp5k just tap mouse button
spas
a real shotgun shots its bullets in a circle of about 1 m at a distance of 30 m
urban terror
be glad if u do 8% = 2 pieces at a distance of 7 meters
urt needs a real shotgun, doing damage like a psg at a distance of 5 m
:-/
I CANT play without HE NADE in CTF.
is great to income with a timed nade in your hand and throw it at the flag camper face =)
booommmmmm
most top gunners, especially in CTF, knows the importance of beretta
although beretta is totally abandoned in the euro scene
You say nobody uses the Beretta in the EU scene, and I know nobody uses it in the NA scene.
Who uses it then? Nobody. It’s a terrible gun, hopefully the Glock will serve as a viable alternative.
mant of the VeX players who defeated 51 uses beretta.
Maybe Negev has a lots of bullets so it better does a lil damage.
Agree with most of this.
Meh, Spas. Underestimated as hell… cmon, it does 80% with a single shot if you stick it into someones body. Thats quite a lot, with two shots you normally got a kill. Just use it properly…
Spas is very short ranged, but extremely powerful.
And Negev doesnt need more damage, just stop spamming with it
As said, you cant compare weapons in UrT. They all have their place and are nicely balanced.
In the same time you spent to stick TWO spas shot in someone’s body, someone will put 20 mp5k bullets in your body
Here’s my two cents on these underrated weapons. First, I would like to point out that there are no such things as underused weapons. Weapons of all kinds are used in Pubs, and skilled players can get kills with any weapon. Here’s an analysis of some of the mentioned weapons in no particular order:
Negev: Don’t pick it. Rambo-ness may be cool to first time players and unskilled spray and pray players, but it isn’t cool when the enemy rushes you with his LR or AK. The Negev is the most nerfed weapon ever. The Para in CS does heavy damage, while the Negev sucks. You should only use this in TDM and bomb. Spam at defusers in Bomb and shoot around corners in TDM. Strongly unadvised though.
PSG1: Some people swear by this gun(myself included). This is because of two things: 1)97% damage no kevlar and bleedout. This ensures death 98% of the time. 2)Semi-Auto action. The SR8 is overpowered for sure, but the bolt-action unscoping SUCKs. No such thing like this is in the PSG1 though, and the recoil isn’t as bad as some on the UrT forums suggest. Also, if you are good at headshots, there’s no reason to use the SR8. PSG1 kills on headshot, helmet or not. Also, shooting into crowds deals incredible damage to enemy team.
HK69: I love this weapon. Why? Because it is so satisfying to get kills with it. Shooting into campers/defenders in CTF either kills them or forces them out into the open for you to kill with you secondary. Remeber to choose extra ammo for this gun, or you’re screwed. Also, for maps you where you spots where multiple enemies come out(especially DressingRoom and Casa), this weapon is very useful. Good for TDM and CTF, useless for anything else.
G36: The SPAS would be a good secondary for this gun. Try to tap quickly instead of spamming. You must try to aim for head with his gun. Kills shouldn’t be hard. Play this gun like a low damage with rof version of the PSG1. Often considered a noob weapon, but that is because it is easy to kill witht this gun.
SPAS: I LOVE this gun. I agree with the person that mentioned pairing with a sniper and rushing. I like to pair this gun with the PSG and the G36 when I’m not SR8ing. Remember to be close to the enemy when you fire. You should be clode enough to do over 50% damage. Two shots usually kills an enemy for me. Reload sucks, but You don’t have to wait for finish to shoot again.
M4: I don’t use this gun much. I prefer the LR300 because it sounds so much better. I have also heard it is less accurate and does more damage than the M4. Can someone tell me if there is a difference?
UMP45: Accurate. Use like a Deagle.
MP5K: Fast rof. Use like Negev.
Berretta: Spam at head. Very useful against helmetless players.
LR and M4 are identical in ROF and Damage. Just different texture and sound.
I think Negev IS good, it’s just that people get called noob while using it so no one uses it. And when someone applies for a clan, and they put “my fav weap is Negev” you will definitely get rejected for obvious reasons.
I have done some limited testing, I believe the M4 is a tiny bit more accurate than the LR (on the first few shots). But, the LR’s rate of fire is a tiny bit faster than the M4. So, if I’m right, they are very similar, separated by subtle differences. This is a topic I’ve been very curious about. Does anyone else have more info?
Hi aftershave,
Through my understanding, the M4 has a higher rate of fire but has more spread, and LR300 has a slower ROF but has less spread and therefore is more accurate. I’ve met a lot of players with different opinions, so this question is open.
They are both exactly the same. No difference at all. The perceived difference in rate of fire is due to the different sounds the guns emit. The sound duration is different.
Spas is not underrated, it simple just sucks in this version.
you just named like every weapon besides sr8, lr and deagle
Lolz, true, true.
Hey Engine, this person has a point =P
Know what? IMHO this game has pretty bad balanced weapons.. that’s why you see the same weapons over and over again in the servers.
If you can’t kill with the SPAS you can’t aim. I reliably get 20-40% damage hits at close/medium range. Yeah sometimes you get a retarded 4% at 2 feet away, but that’s probably due to lag (the closer you get to a target, the more “aim at the model” fails to work) and the random nature of the spread pattern (although it used to be an asterisk shape; not sure if that’s still the case). It kills about as fast as the MP5 can, and is much more thrifty with ammo. It’s not a long range gun…that’s why you have your SR8 and DE/Retta. I also like that if I don’t kill someone by the time I’m at 0 shells, I can choose to load 1 or 2 in less time than it takes to reload the MP5. It’s not as efficient at reloading as the CS:S pump shotty, but it’s close. It’s pretty rare though that 6 shells won’t finish someone off even at several meters away. Usually it will be some laggot with 8000 rate who can’t aim for shit anyway.:P
Don’t even mention the UMP in the secondary battle…it’s horrible. Killing speed is far lower than the MP5. If spam mode worked properly it’d be great, but it seems to be extremely difficult to land 3 hits even on stationary targets. If it did work, it’d be like a 10 shell SPAS with reliably high damage. I guess we’re lucky it’s so broken.:)
Also I’d like to see someone who can get 1:1 with an HK against any clan in a league. Any. Even those double digit division teams from UZ! Wallhacks, aimbots, etc. allowed. Seriously it would never happen.
You have a point there, don. The HK is for pub play only, use it in a clan match, and you as good as dead. If they can just change the settings for it to explode on impact…..
Also, I found that the MP5 and Negev have the least spread out of the UrT weapons when having silencer equipped. The game description says that the Negev can equip silencer, but in fact it can’t. So at close/medium ranger, spamming at the top shoulders/head can usually kill someone quicker that rushing to point blank range with SPAS. The UMP’s slower rof and bad spam mode keeps it a mid range weapon. Click it like you do with the AK.
I meant Laser on Negev. Oops…
Well, you just said UMP was not accurate when used in spam mode. This is right, bullets spread too much to get kills. But if you use a laser with UMP in spam you will see it gets very accurate, the 3 bullets spread just a little, and vertically, so you easily fire at torso + arm + helmet,or stuff like that.
negev is too good already it shoots way to fast… faster than the spam gun? with extra damage added on… it will be unstoppable. last time playing with rambetter it was amazing how he dealt so much damage with so little time.
only thing his clan members is not as good as him…
Well I have noticed when look at spams of guns, the m4 spams more up and down where as the lr300 spams to the side, i find i can also hit more with a m4 spam than a lr300 spam.
Anyone noticed how on the weapon select menu the bullets are screwed up? It says the LR and the Negev have the same bullet. Not sure if thats accurate or not, but it sure was misleading to me:
90 bullet-machine-gun
30 bullet-submachine-gun
with same bullets. WTF?
I found a great website on UrT weapons. They show the spread of bullets on the bulls-eye thing. Their research suggests that the UMP45, MP5K, and Negev are they most accurate guns in the game(besides for snipers and G36, obviously). Both MP5K and Negev have faster rof than UMP, so MP5K is INDEED tte best secondary.
Link:
http://urt.taggedzi.com/weaponguide.php
This this is so wrong. The way they calculate accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. Take the example of the MP5K, it puts a lot of ammo near the center of the target, but very few are dead on. Also, you can’t calculate accuracy based only on full auto, that’s retarded. You never ever empty a full magazine on a stationary target while actually playing the game.
The thing that makes the MP5 so inaccurate is that it never fires exactly dead on target, there’s always a bit of deviation. While this doesn’t matter in very short range, like the one they use for their accuracy tests (5 meters), it matters a lot more at medium to long range. If you want to test this yourself, go on Riyadh or any other big map with a friend, and take 1 bullet aimed shots ate each other while stationary, and see how many times you hit with the MP5K compared to all the other guns. Even the Desert Eagle will have better accuracy than the MP5K, I can guarantee (having tested it myself a couple of times).
I loaded Riyadh, and took the SR8 and the MP5. I shot a once with the MP5 and immediately scoped with the SR8. This was all done without moving the crosshair. I noticed a great deviation where the bullet landed. This increased dramatically as the distance increased. As a side experiment, I also took the UMP. I noticed that the UMP is only slightly more accurate than the MP5 long distance. But short distance, the MP5 is the better secondary with a faster ROF. I also did the test with the Deagle just for fun. The first shot was accurate enough, but the recoil killed any shots beyond that.
Depends, the strength of the UMP is its spam(burst) mode, if you are not using it, you are not using the gun to its full potential. The UMP kills an unarmored target in one burst in close range. The burst mode on the UMP is the fastest firing speed in the game if 3 hits is enough to kill your opponent.
I just can’t count the number of times I got killed by slower guns in close range while using the MP5K, it fires really fast, true, but it deals very low damage and doesn’t kill on a headshot. I’d be interested to see tests done say, between the MP5K and the LR300/M4/UMP/AK103 in point blank and see which gun kills the fastest… my money would not be on the MP5K.
Once again, this is all about probability, and skill to a certain degree. I sometimes play FFA with MP5 and SPAS with full kev/helm. I go up against many AK and UMP playors but I jump around and long(10 or so) burst at their heads. This usually kills in 7 or so shots, depending on their protection. I usually am able to kill AK and UMP players but easily get killed by LR300 and M4 users. I usually try to switch to SPAS and rush them.
You can survive a slow fire gun with the MP5, but on faster autos, you’re pretty much dead.
“90 bullet-machine-gun
30 bullet-submachine-gun
with same bullets. WTF?”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LR_300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Negev
They both use the same type of bullet irl (5.56 x 45mm NATO) but if they did the same damage it would be awful for balancing.
On pubs I’ve used the Negev when I can’t seem to aim properly with a “real” gun. It can be pretty devastating to snipers at medium range since it continually unscopes them. At close range it can nail less experienced players with ease and sometimes catch pros completely off guard.
The worst thing about the Negev is the reload time. A good 7 seconds where you’re a sitting duck. You have to wait like 3 or 4 seconds before the game lets you pull a pistol (no secondary!) and even if you pull a kill with that you have to start reloading all over again.
@Anonymous Coward:
I play on and off UrT, stopping for months at a time. I used to be in a clan,but I do not play enough to merit joining a clan now. However, I did notice alot of burst use for the UMP, but most were using it as a secondary to their SR8’s. Very few experienced players actually use the UMP as their primary killing weapon, but many experienced players can kill with the UMP as a secondary. Some pros don’t like clans, and play on pubs. I have played many of them, out of the snipers, about half use secondaries. I noticed the MP5 is more popular as a secondary than the UMP is. One UMP burst can kill a un kevlared player is true, but faster autos can usually kill a UMP. This sets in stone my theory that the UMP is a very good supporting weapon for (skilled)snipers, but cannot rival a true primary gun. The UMP’s accuracy is true, but full auto’s are close and do more damage. Use the AK instead.
Well, I never really consider the UMP as a primary when I have other options, though it is sometimes fun to do it on pubs. And as you state, I do use it as a secondary to the SR8… though, when sniping, the sniper rifle should probably be considered the secondary, as you are gonna be defending yourself with your sub/pistol most of the time against skilled players.
In smaller games and in clan matches, I see a lot of SR8 + laser sighted deagles and not much secondaries because of the low players count. On pubs, well, it’s pretty random, mostly MP5K as secondaries because the noobs are really amazed at it’s firing speed. Still, I have absolutely no problem killing full auto users in close range with my UMP, 1 or 2 bursts will do the job, and if you keep moving fast, less skilled players won’t even be able to hit you. When I try to do the same with the MP5K, it doesn’t work as well. The MP5K takes longer to kill than two UMP bursts, giving your opponents plenty of time to shoot back at you. Actually, the most deaths I get in close combat with the UMP is against deagles. Though, no weapon can match the deagle in sheer damage output in close range.
And, I know I am going back to an earlier message of yours, but I don’t exactly agree that you can easily kill AK users with the MP5K, I hardly ever get killed by MP5K when using the AK (also my favorite assault rifle), unless I am already low on health. When using the AK in close range, I get the most deaths from M4/LR300 and deagles. Though, at longer range, the M4/LR300 can’t keep up with the AK. When firing slower to keep accuracy and aiming carefully, you will end up shooting both guns approximately at the same speed, and the AK usually fares better thanks to it’s much higher damage per bullet (that’s in my experience of course, other people’s may vary).
Anyway, back to the MP5K, it takes two bullets in the chest to kill an unarmored opponent with an AK, 4 with an MP5k… I’m pretty sure the MP5K doesn’t fire twice as fast as the AK. According to the guide you posted earlier, the AK is 4.7 bps, 8.3 for the MP5K. This means that if all your shots hit, the AK still kills faster than the MP5K. Against armored targets, you need 3 shots with the AK and 5 with the MP5K, which means they are probably both roughly equal and the player that starts to shoot first will win if we don’t take the accuracy of the guns into account.
Anyway, that’s the way I rationalize my own failings with the MP5K and my love for the UMP, which hardly ever lets me down, unless my bursts fires right through my opponent because of lag or something (everyone loves when that happens!). =)
I have to admit you are right, especially after I LANed a friend that used an AK. I used the MP5, and used the burst shooting way. He easilly killed me by the burst/tap combo. I then tried to burst at his head, an the better accuracy of MP5 actually killed him first, but I was under 15% health. This was all done with both kevlars and no helms. No accuracy boosters where used. Then, we both took lasers, and his improved accuracy killed me. I then tried to spam at his head/neck area, and SURPRISE, I easily killed him. I think that was because of three reasons. One, is because most players are taught to aim for torso, not head, for efficiency reasons since more bullets should land. And, Two, because the MP5 has a strong ROF. And Last, there is only very slight spread for a laser equipped MP5. In this picture, you can see that the spread of the MP5 is indeed very small:
http://urt.taggedzi.com/articles/image/mp5/MP5-Silenced-Lazer.jpg
This makes me wonder if the “….MP5 spammed without mercy…” is actually a good advice. My results may not be typical though, so by all means try it yourself. BTW, since the Negev is a just a MP5 with more bullets…..
Anonymous Coward, I would like to ask you a few things about the UMP since I do not choose it often. Do you manual burst, or do you put it in burst mode? I have found it very hard to play while in burst mode, especially around jumping pros. Also, Is it true that the UMP has bad accuracy without anything equipped? This gun is the most accurate in the game, am I correct?
Your MP5K tests are very representative of my experience in game, the very few times I get killed with it when I have an AK is when I get shot in the head. Though good players seem to be able to do it well. Though, in close combat I usually aim for the upper chest with my AK, so recoil pushes my aim to their neck and head. When I face very good playes, I aim directly for the head and it usual evens things out. Except of course when I face a player that is just too good. They are rare, but damn, you can learn from facing them.
As for the UMP, I always use it on burst. Full-auto is useless on it as it’s to slow and it gets unstable as fast as any other weapon. The burst mode shoots all 3 bullets with whatever spread you have when you shoot, and by the time you are ready to shoot your next burst, your spread has already recovered a lot, so your next burst will be a lot more accurate than, say, your 6th bullet if you shoot full auto.
Also, since burst shoots all 3 bullets almost instantly, if you kill your opponents on your first burst (you hit the head, or they are unarmored, or if armored, already hurt), since the killing is almost instantaneous, they don’t have time to shoot back, leaving you unhurt and ready to face your next opponent. On full auto, it’s not possible, as the UMP fires so slow, they will always have time to put a few bullets through you. If you need two burst to kill them, they have enough time to shoot you a bit, but if you kill them on the second burst, they still have had time to shoot less bullets at you than if you had to shoot 6 bullets on full-auto. I have never tried it, but it would be interesting to see if full-auto empties the magazine faster than repeated bursts as fast as you can.
It takes a LOT of practice to be good at aiming your bursts though. It took me a few weeks of not too intense playing, but, once you get good at it, it helps a lot with other weapons, like quick targeting with scoped guns, or reliably hitting far away opponents with the deagle. Burst mode is good at all range, not just close range. If you use a laser sight, you can reliably hit with all 3 bullets at medium range. But I wouldn’t say that the gun has bad accuracy without anything, as most of the time I use it without any attachments. I haven’t noticed any real increase in performance in close range from a laser sight or silencer. Most of the time, I use it along with an SR8, so I don’t shoot very far away targets all that much. When I do it though, at long range, I hit with 1 or 2 bullets most of the time, shooting almost as fast as well aimed AK shots. This allows me to keep up with M4/LR300 quite well, but I still get killed by skilled AKs users most of the time. Guess that’s what the SR8 is for.
I would like to add as a side note that I never wear a kevlar, only a helmet. My experience would probably be a lot different if I didn’t die in just 2 AK bullets to the chest at any range.
I also always carry a medikit, this makes patching my wounds faster, meaning I rarely die from chests shots from a PSG-1.
Interesting. I have just tried a few games with a UMP on burst. You are correct when you say that it takes practice, since I did terrible. I also did an experiment with a bot, where he was using an AK, and I the UMP. Let’s just say I died.
I tend to use kevlar/no helm on TS, TDM, and FFA and no kev/helm when playing Bomb and CTF. Since I mostly play CTF, I like the extra stanima of no kev. However, I get killed frequently on TS when someone shoots me in the head. Not fun.
I think that the burst effect should be applied to the Glock. Three bullets should be shot at the exact point the crosshair was on(like CS) and combined should do more damage than a bullet from the Deagle. It would fire slower than the Deagle though, for cooldown purposes. This wouls diferentiate the Glock from the Berreta, and make it playable.
Keep working on the UMP, it comes with time. What you can do first is focusing on getting only head shots and not caring to die at all, shoot slowly, very slowly if you have to. After 4-5 hours of this, you’ll have better crosshair discipline, and you can get back to bursting the upper chest/neck area. You don’t have to use the UMP for that either, I did it a lot with the Beretta since it’s so accurate, and it helped with all my guns, not just the UMP on burst. Crosshair discipline is very different when using semi auto than full auto. After I got good with the UMP, I also switched to semi-auto for the AK/M4/LR300. Every extra millisecond you wait between your shot reduces your spread, so shooting a bit slower usually helps a lot in the end. For me at least, other players do mighty well with short full-auto bursts. To everyone his play style.
I always say that the helmet is the most important part of your equipment. Very good players will shoot at your head and usually hit. So basically, the kevlar protects against less skilled players and good players, and the helmet protects against very good players and dumb luck. Since the very good players are a hell of a lot more dangerous, I’d rather wear my helmet… especially if there’s a Beretta sharpshooter running around.
The medikit also helps mitigate the fact that I wear no kevlar armor. Beside, the extra stamina is always useful. In fact, I can’t think of a single situation where having double the stamina is not a huge plus.
As for the Glock, the model is weird. It sports the Glock 19 markings, but the Glock 19 is a compact Glock, while this one has the normal form factor and size of a Glock 17. This is not a full auto Glock, so it can’t shoot bursts. A compact pistol is by definition not as accurate as a longer barreled one, like the Beretta. What I would do it lower the Beretta to 12 rounds, slightly increasing the damage and not touching accuracy. I would give the Glock 15 rounds and a lower accuracy than the Beretta and the current Beretta damage. This way we would have a close range demon (deagle), a longer range pistol that still packs a punch, the Beretta, and a spamming beauty, the Glock, which would be like the current Beretta but less accurate. This would make all 3 guns completely different and avoid the “middle of the road” gun effect found in other games, where no one uses guns in the extremes of the spectrum, but choose those with good average quality that are more versatile.
@Anonymous Coward:
I see why burst mode work for you. You play guns with Semi-Auto mode. You are used to waiting and shooting. Most people aren’t. Every pro I have played against bursts. Engine bursts. Don bursts. Tapping is good at long distance,but for medium and short ranges, you should still burst. Bursting is the correct way to shoot. Bursting is the only way to shoot. I got carried away, no? I guess normal players should stick with bursting, since this leaves and open route to spamming when enemies are close up.
Since we were talking about the Glock, I want to hear your opinions on the Benelli M4 and P90.
BM4:(We’ll call it that to not confuse with the M4). This will be more accurate at medium range than the SPAS. Long range use would still be useless. It should do 60 damage at most, with SPAS at 80. This would diferentiate them. I think they should increase the per-bullet damage of SPAS to raise it’s useage. The BM4 should have twice the damage per bullet than the SPAS but not as high total damage(using damage caps). This would allow the SPAS to be a short range gun, and the BM4 to be a mid range one.
P90: Increase Negev and MP5 damage. Reinstate movement penalty on Negev. Negev users will be powerful but REALLY slow movement. Now make the P90 have the old Negev/MP5 damage but an even faster ROF. Best secondary ever.
I am doing a survey on the forums….Let’s see the weapon preferences.
You’d be surprised at how fast I can spam even in semi-auto. I used to swear only by the Beretta even at close range (I have since corrected my stance on the deagle… after I learned good crosshair discipline from bursting, the deagle rocks too, actually, both pistols are great, I’d gladly give up my secondary to have a Beretta AND a deagle with me). I can actually click faster than the AK can shoot without a significant loss in mouse accuracy.
The Benelli shotgun cannot be balanced without changes to the spas. The spas is pretty much useless as it is, it can deal good damage up close, but can’t beat a deagle and it’s useless at medium to long range. The spas should have it’s accuracy increased a bit, say, 10-20% less spread and it’s damage slightly lowered, say, max 70% in one shot. This would actually make it kill faster than the current buckshot-esque spas and position it as a fast spamming weapon. The Benelli should be the monster, killing instantly at close range if unarmored, doing max 90% on a kevlar, meaning that even if healed back to 90%, you can’t survive a well aimed shot up close. This would basically mean the Benelli would be a close range SR8. Of course, the Benelli would shoot quite slowly… maybe SR8 speed. If the Benelli can do decent damage at medium range, say, 35%, I would be satisfied. High damage VS slow rate of fire would be a good balance and add a new style of play not available in the game, unless you like using an SR8 like a shotgun.
As for the P90, in real life it has armour piercing rounds but low calibre. I would give it low damage, similar to the MP5, but with not much reduction from kevlar armor. I’d give it a rate of fire similar to the AK and a precision similar to the G36 but with a bit more recoil than the G36. This would make a rather low powered gun, but it would be almost equally easy to kill armored ant unarmored opponents. Of course, it needs to have 45 rounds magazines and a 5 seconds reload time… these magazines are huge and will not fit in regular tactical vest pouches. I would basically play like a SMG Negev but that can’t long range as effectively because of it’s high recoil. This way in the secondary category, the UMP would remain better at long range, the MP5K at close range and the P90 would be a great support weapon. It would be most excellent at pinning the opponents down and controlling the enemy movements, but would not be a be-all end-all close combat weapon. It would certainly not match the UMP on burst mode, but would be a bit more versatile as it would be better able to spam, without being as effective as the MP5K in making a lot of tiny holes really fast in your opponents. My idea of the P90’s main use would probably be when facing an enemy team that’s fully armored, where the MP5K and Beretta just won’t cut it.
I would like to disagree. The SPAS should be changed into a pump-action shotgun like a version of it in real life. This would have lower damage total, but less spread than the current one. The shooting speed should be between the PSG and SR8. The P90 was always intended as the ultimate close-combat king, and saw much use in early versions of CS(before it was nerfed). The P90 and MP5K have the same ROF in real life. The P90 would have the same ROF as the MP5, and do high dmage to kevlar players, but have insane recoil and spread. This makes it a close range weapon without the all round useability of the MP5.
The close range SR8 was exactly what I had in mind for the Benelli M4. But instead, make it’s spread enough so that close range is amazing, medium range is uasable(unlike today’s SPAS), and long range still do damage.
But in real life, the P90 is also a lot more stable than an MP5K due to the way you hold it.
As for the spas… well, we can’t have two pump action shotguns, they would both play the same… beside, unless you increase the damages by a whole lot, it’s gonna be absolutely useless if it fires slower. It’s so bad already.
It’s less about the damage than the spread. Keep the spread low, and medium range hits will reliably do 40+ damage. The Benelli M4 isn’t a pump action, is it?
I’ll give you my weapon survey response here since those c***s at UrT.net banned me.:/
Q: MP5 or UMP?
A: Mp5
Q: So, what guns do yo prefer, and why?
A: LR, DE. LR is the most well rounded gun (M4 is equal since I think the spread pattern is different, but not in/superior to the LR), and the most used/plenitful. DE is obviously much better than the Beretta for 90% of players.
Q: Also, is a higher damage, slower ROF gun better or worse than a lower damage higher ROF gun?
A: Worse. Low damage/high ROF (LH) is better because of the multiplier effect of headshots, assuming damage per second is equal. Plus the high ROF means you can get more hits in. The problem is that the Mp5 and UMP are not balanced against each other. The UMP is too slow or too weak (or both), while the MP5 is too fast or too strong (or both).
Q: Do use use any fire modes besides for full auto?
A: Very rarely I use semi auto, but mostly because for some reason my config has G36 and AK set to semi, and I have never bothered to change that, and I don’t have weapon mode change bound to a key, so if I pick up an AK in the heat of battle, I am going to be using semi auto. Basically it’s not a huge handicap, because I’ve never changed that quirk with my config for a good 2 years, but I see no good reason not to use full auto.
Q: Is the kevlar more useful than the helmet, in which circumstances?
A: No. Helmet is very important, because of random spam raping your head. I hit approximately 20-30% headshots in pubs, slightly lower in matches because people don’t stand still or move like crap. What’s scary is that I do not ever aim for the head on purpose. I aim upper torso and due to spread, I hit headshots. If you have a helmet that’s not as big a deal, but if you have no helmet, you could die before you can even react. There’s not any good reason not to have a helmet. It’s more important than the vest and laser. If you need an item slot, drop your vest and hope you’re a good enough jumper that you can compensate somewhat with speed and maneuverability.
Q: What do guns used by pros have compared to guns used by noobs?
A: I don’t follow this question. There aren’t really any newb guns, just bad guns that newbs use because they fit a crappy play style (spamming). I see more worthless newbs (doorway blockers, tkers, afk in spawn) with LRs and SR8s than I see with Negevs and G36s.
Q: How could the SPAS be revised to both see more use and allow inclusion of Benelli M4 in 4.2?
A: More damage I guess, but as I’ve said before, it works fine. If it did more damage more consistently, it’d be extremely dangerous in the hands of a good player. M4 could have a longer range I guess, but I’d rather just see the shitty SPAS model removed and have the M4 adopt its stats. SPAS is seriously ugly.
Q: How would the P90 stack up against the other SMG’s? Would it affect your play style?
A: No because I don’t use SMGs. Only snipers should have a secondary, and I think they’ll still prefer the up close rapage of the SPAS or the MP5 for its (relative to the P90 and UMP) mid range damage and mid range ROF. Ia ssume the P90 will be like its CSS equivalent (i.e., so extreme in damage and ROF that it’s useless).
Q: Is it really impossible to kill auto users with a Negev?
A: Pretty much. It takes a long time to get a kill with the Negev even with the slightly higher ROF. It’s more of an annoyance than anything, since you get legged a lot.
Q: What guns, based on your experience, has the best accuracy?
A: SR8 lol. But from a damage consistency standpoint, the LR and M4 are the best. Most snipers shoot 40-60% accuracy, most LRs 20-30% (if we ignore purposely shooting at corners, which I do a lot). The SR8 is about 3x as powerful but it’s less than 1/6 as fast, so it does less damage over time. It’s a very reliable gun for the first 3-5 shots of your burst as well, probably getting well into 40% accuracy.
That is VERY interesting and beneficial, Don. Thank you for taking the time to fill out my survey. I agree with most of what you said, but here are a few things to disagree with:
-The SPAS is ugly. Have you seen the new M4? It looks like a freakin’ broomstick. If the SPAS is revised so it’s not completely useless at anything but point-blank range, than it would see much more use. In fact, C9’s Zombie server has a real usable SPAS, although that may be because the Red “Zombies” are trying to knife you. Reduce the spread!
-P90 was only added for fun. It has the same ROF as the MP5. Will probably be another LR/M4 deal, so it will be just as good as the MP5(with more bullets?).
-You should try to change to semi-auto setting of your AK and G36. Suppose you get rushed. You try and jump around avoiding bullets while trying to keep your crosshair on the enemy. They are bursting at you and getting great hits, yet your tap tap tap barely lands hits on them. Very bad situation, especially in TS.
-I used to go kevlar without helm, but recently switched over. I used to be a strafe runner and didn’t jump all that much. I have since learned jumping, and find it better than kev at keeping you alive. I also noticed that alot of my deaths in the past were from headshots. I could usually survive someone unless they manage to land a bullt on my unprotected head.
-Last, WHY THE F**K WOULD THE URT STAFF BAN YOU????!!!???
I don’t know you that much, but you seem to be an okay person.
I would like to say about Negev.
It is a pretty good weapon. In one server I managed to do 100 frags in 33 mins. Cool,eh ?
@DingDong: seems we can’t thread anymore, no reply button on your last post, so I’m replying here, and tried to manipulate the url to see where the comment would end up.
Alright, so I wasn’t hallucinating when I got killed all these times by M4 and LR300. They really deal more damage than the MP5K up close.
Do you get to face a lot of people using the UMP on burst? I see it very rarely on pubs, but more experienced players seem to use it on burst a lot more.